France made an even a smarter move as it sold its reserves in the US and bought higher purity gold locally.
crote 14 hours ago [-]
That's also what mostly happened in this case. 59 tonnes was sold in the US and bought back in London, 27 tonnes was physically transferred from the US to The Netherlands, and 27 tonnes was physically transferred from The Netherlands to London.
stpedgwdgfhgdd 21 hours ago [-]
Nl sold some part as well
benj111 20 hours ago [-]
NI? Not Northern Ireland...
pseudohadamard 9 hours ago [-]
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say NI at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred.
nuthje 20 hours ago [-]
NL, Netherlands
newtwentysix 20 hours ago [-]
wow! that would have saved some shipping expenses ?
andsoitis 24 hours ago [-]
> “A more equal spread of the gold supply between North America, the United Kingdom, and the U.S. also helps to spread the risk.”
They’re not exiting all the gold held in North America; instead they’re rebalancing so that for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk.
adjejmxbdjdn 21 hours ago [-]
Yes, but it’s a very specific geopolitical risk.
European countries aren’t worried that China will conquer the U.S. and they’d lose access to their gold because a hostile Chinese government controls it.
The increased risk is that the U.S. was considered basically risk free for allies, and now the U.S. isn’t considered risk free anymore and allied status is also at risk.
vinay427 21 hours ago [-]
To the extent this is the justification, why is Canada included?
duderific 20 hours ago [-]
In case the US takes over Canada, I guess. After all, we've already taken over Lake America.
spacedcowboy 20 hours ago [-]
cough I think you mean Lake Epstein
insane_dreamer 16 hours ago [-]
so they can say moving out of "North America" instead of "US" and avoid the ire of a certain mad king
ModernMech 16 hours ago [-]
That won't work because he already believes he owns everything from hemisphere from Greenland to Venezuela.
insane_dreamer 13 hours ago [-]
why stop at Venezuela? Chile has valuable mineral deposits, and crave the freedom that only the mad king can give. Extend the empire to Tierra del Fuego I say!
andsoitis 12 hours ago [-]
Chile is a stable, market-driven democracy with a robust economy, whereas Venezuela has experienced severe political authoritarianism and a deep, multi-year economic collapse, and a massive humanitarian exodus of millions of citizens.
insane_dreamer 9 hours ago [-]
whoosh!
> whereas Venezuela has experienced severe political authoritarianism and a deep, multi-year economic collapse, and a massive humanitarian exodus of millions of citizens
none of which has been resolved by the US violently removing their leader and taking over their oil
csense 20 hours ago [-]
The Canadian government froze the bank accounts of truckers involved in a protest [1] [2] [3].
If a government is willing to go after the property of its own citizens without due process, foreign investors have to think: "What's to stop the same from happening to me?" Even if that foreign investor's a central bank.
[2] Maybe the truckers' protest went too far; they were blocking roads. The point isn't whether they deserved to be punished; the point is that their accounts were frozen without going through the laws and court system.
[3] This was in 2022, so it has nothing to do with the current US administration.
megagpt5 19 hours ago [-]
I thought they did go through the law and courts system.
eldaisfish 19 hours ago [-]
For anyone curious, this is hyperbole that people of certain political persuasions love to mischaracterise.
These were not "protests", they were a sustained attempt to appeal to the wrong level of government for policies of a foreign government by a bunch of people who were riled up on the internet. Highlights included nazi flags, guns, harassing and threatening women and local residents, etc.
what is most telling is that when you search for commentary about the Canadian federal government freezing bank accounts, a significant portion of links are from reactionary, right wing websites.
486sx33 17 hours ago [-]
They did freeze bank accounts though, and in other countries with democracy, citizens are allowed to protest, “occupy” and nazi flags are free speech. Mentioning guns is hyperbole, zero protesters shot anyone. Now, the government DID take peoples rights away and their bank accounts . Very important.
andsoitis 12 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
20 hours ago [-]
consp 23 hours ago [-]
No, but "removing" around half of it from one place is quite a bit. Though I doubt any single physical kg ever moved more than a few meters to the buying countries vault. edit: They physically moved 27 tons, the rest was traded away and bought again in London.
dmurray 21 hours ago [-]
If they sell enough of it in the US and buy enough in London, traders who take the other side of that position will physically move it to London.
That's exactly the service the commodities markets provide: they will absorb a small trade without anyone incurring the costs of shipping precious metals, and they know who to call to get it shipped once there's enough supply/demand imbalance to make shipping it worthwhile.
23 hours ago [-]
m-i-l 21 hours ago [-]
In times of crisis it can be physically moved, e.g. under threat of Nazi invasion in 1939-1940 the UK physically moved over 1,500 tonnes of gold from London to Canada ("the largest known movement of physical wealth in history"[0]), and infamously at the start of the Spanish Civil War the Spanish physically moved 510 tonnes of gold from Spain to the Soviet Union (never to see it again[1]).
The Spanish case shows how tricky it is to sell your gold. Suddenly other countries found out that Spain had money from liquidating its gold and milked it dry.
Given Spain’s history it is incredible that the gold collected over centuries was spent in a few years.
The wiki article is very carefully tip toeing that there is no evidence that the Soviets defrauded or abused the Spanish, but it is hard to believe that 72% of the world’s gold reserves were visibly spent in a few years.
I did not investigate further but I understood the documents are not completely public, and my conspiracy hat tells me that is because it is a national humiliation.
ifwinterco 20 hours ago [-]
At the time the Soviet Union had the Spanish government over a barrel because they were the only people who could/would supply significant quantities of desperately needed weapons (the opposing Nationalists were better equipped for reasons I'm not entirely sure of).
This also contributed significantly to the Communist (Stalinist) faction winning the internecine struggle on the left against the Anarchists and Trotskyists, but the quid pro quo was loyalty to the Soviet Union.
In hindsight we know they lost anyway, so this seems really silly, but at the time everyone involved believed they were in a completely existential struggle against fascism that was more important than literally anything else.
For anyone interested Orwell's Homage to Catalonia is an excellent book although it's just one man's perspective and may not be entirely historically accurate
benj111 20 hours ago [-]
There's a good film about Norway getting their gold out ahead of the Nazis. Gold Run I think it's called.
TheRealPomax 22 hours ago [-]
That's the fun thing about gold. It's literal gold, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Moving it really means moving it: bars are stamped and owned, and if the owner wants to move them, those bars need to get transported to wherever the owner says they should be.
It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)
NhanH 21 hours ago [-]
Currency is inherently about trust: you believe it can be traded later for goods. The mechanism with fiat is that you need to trust your state and government.
In gold, you trust that everyone is believing gold has value. And that it is commmon knowledge (in the logic sense [0])
Saying that gold has no more or less inherent monetary value than fiat currency assuming a magic wand that can change a large percentage of people's belief.
Ammunition and canned goods actually have inherent monetary value. While not being fiat currency.
NhanH 7 hours ago [-]
Goods have inherent value. We are talking about currency.
Isamu 21 hours ago [-]
>inherent monetary value
I agree, the price of gold depends on demand like everything else. Although gold just has some inherent utility value in addition to scarcity that makes it less likely for the price to go to zero, other stuff like cryptocurrency have only scarcity and can go to zero much more easily.
xxs 20 hours ago [-]
gold has quite the inherent value - no oxygen reaction (all electronics) and partly jewelry.
if the gold has cheaper would be used quite alot due to being the only metal not oxidizing (the other one being platinum which is even rarer and comes from the same ore source)
mr_toad 20 hours ago [-]
> It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)
I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.
benj111 20 hours ago [-]
The jewellery market stems from the 'inherent' value thing though.
I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency.
Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though.
I don't think this is a hill that either the op or I is willing to die on though. It is an observation of human behaviour, rather than a statement that gold _should not_ be the world store of value.
lotsofpulp 19 hours ago [-]
>Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though.
...you just provided intrinsic reasons for why gold has value. Humans need to trade, bartering goods and services directly is less efficient than using a currency, and gold has qualities that make it more useful as a currency than other materials. It is the opposite of an arbitrary metal, it is a material that has specific desirable qualities hence chosen to be used as a currency by many societies.
lotsofpulp 21 hours ago [-]
That is the non idiotic thing about gold, since it is not fiat, is not easy to produce, and it is easy to verify, it can be used as a currency in less stable times/places. It’s a redundancy. Perhaps bitcoin satisfies many of these properties without the high costs to secure and move gold, but it needs electricity and a network?
Fact is, it was not a issue before, because of trust.
"for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk." is just nice wording for "Trump is burning down all bridges".
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
> "for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk." is just nice wording for "Trump is burning down all bridges".
It is more multifaceted than that. To wit: they're leaving a substantial amount still in North America.
America's actions is a big part of it, but it isn't the only reason.
devin 22 hours ago [-]
It's a hedge against the risk of the current government. Leaving a bunch here is part of the hedge. It's not as "multifaceted" as you're making it out to be.
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
Hey, I’m simply echoing what the Dutch government said. I’m taking them at face value since the Dutch are pretty direct.
skrebbel 22 hours ago [-]
The Dutch are pretty direct but not to Donald Trump, who has a famously thin skin and can cause a huge European crisis with a single tweet.
You have to see all European diplomacy through that lens. Everybody’s tiptoeing around the orange idiot’s feelings and meanwhile working hard to make sure we’re never again so dependent on a country that’s so untrustworthy. This gold move is one of the many little steps taken in that direction.
benj111 19 hours ago [-]
You could make the argument that leaving gold there also leaves them ammunition for later. The threat of removing the rest is also a useful tool. Personally I'd be getting out of all US bond holdings and investments and making sure the banks are limiting exposed too, well personally I have. Keeping investments in the US, in US debt is just irresponsible at the moment.
basisword 21 hours ago [-]
The US being that 'geopolitical risk'.
jurmous 17 hours ago [-]
Location Before After Change
New York 31.3% 18.5% −12.8 pp
Ottawa 19.7% 18.5% −1.2 pp
London 18.1% 32.1% +14.0 pp
Zeist 30.8% 30.8% 0 pp
Seems it is mostly because there was less trust in the USA, and added a little bit from Canada to make it less obvious.
roromainmain 22 hours ago [-]
Considering the Netherlands’ strategic ties with the US, this sounds like quite a bold move. France doing so was one thing, but the Dutchs have always been rather Atlanticists.
Deukhoofd 22 hours ago [-]
For what it's worth, the Dutch Central Bank argues that this is simply because it'd be easier to sell in London in a crisis situation.
They've previously stated to be far more worried about the dependency on VISA and MasterCard than the gold reserves in the US.
Well they had to because UK across the Northern Sea was their competition and so France just below, while having Germans next door and Spain not being an ally. Did I mention they are bunch of tall assholes anyways?
bithammerthunde 17 hours ago [-]
> strategic ties with the US
Yeah, that isn't really a thing anymore.
stpedgwdgfhgdd 21 hours ago [-]
That was indeed the case
1attice 22 hours ago [-]
They are also consummate antifascists, which I suppose is in tension now with atlanticism
Rover222 21 hours ago [-]
They're still hoping to get back New York City some day.
Havoc 13 hours ago [-]
Hedging against US risk is definitely sensible right now
A year ago the opposite was being reported on. No clue of the relative numbers, but its telling none of the stories about this are providing the long-term data.
kaon_2 24 hours ago [-]
It may be quirky for Americans to hear this, but one pivotal moment when it truly dawned on the average european citizen how corrupt the US has become, was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup. Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted. Any toddler could see how wrong it was and it was felt deeply in many hearts.
Needless to say trust is close to 0% throughout the population - even the right wing populists distance themselves from Trump - and this is the consequence. I fear we are heading into dangerous times.
lemoncookiechip 24 hours ago [-]
Unironically true. The average person could care less about following politics, but Europeans live football.
GJim 24 hours ago [-]
> could care less
Surely you mean couldn't care less.
sph 23 hours ago [-]
I just saw David Mitchell fall to his knees at a Waitrose
notabotiswear 23 hours ago [-]
Weird Al - Word Crimes
ButlerianJihad 23 hours ago [-]
Well, I could care less, personally. I wish I did care less!
justinhj 23 hours ago [-]
Countries have different idioms.
GJim 22 hours ago [-]
Please explain?
iammjm 22 hours ago [-]
One example to illustrate: when talking about dying, Americans would kick the bucket, Poles would kick the calendar, French would break the pipe, Germans would drop the spoon, and the Spanish would pull the leather. But they all would be referring to the US's trust among its allies.
justinhj 22 hours ago [-]
In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less". The intention and meaning is the same. So the original comment did mean to say what they said.
My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language.
Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"
slater 21 hours ago [-]
> In the US "Could care less" is the equivalent to the British expression "Couldn't care less"
No, it's not.
pasc1878 20 hours ago [-]
It is. The American version just does not say what it means.
tingletech 18 hours ago [-]
maybe it's regional? I always thought "Could care less" was in the same class as "irregardless" or "daylight saving time" -- in common use yet technically incorrect
> The average person could care less about following politics
Could they?
SAI_Peregrinus 21 hours ago [-]
If they isolated themselves from all news, social media, and lived as a hermit, yes. They could care less, but it'd be difficult.
dododore 24 hours ago [-]
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ramblerman 23 hours ago [-]
I think you misunderstood the emphasis there - yes Europeans love football.
The point is that it's so blatant for such little gain, it's still a game. I.e. if he is willing to do that so openly for such low stakes, imagine what he does behind closed doors when it matters.
nerdyadventurer 11 hours ago [-]
I'm not Chinese, but I'm confused why people think Xi Jin Ping is worse, yes they have surveillance, there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people unlike US who when filthy rich getting rich, more and more on homeless on the streets. In addition to that there is surveillance by Flock and Palatir. Most of all they do not let corporation to manage govt, even though their big corps like Alibaba has tried. They have to wage the wars to capture someones natural resources, unlike US holding Iraq oil revenue captive, manage Venezuelan oil. Not to mention helping genocide with trillions.
Funny thing, I recently saw comment under Turkey cat video, saying something like
> Stray cats in live better than homeless in US.
wewxjfq 6 hours ago [-]
> there is single party authoritarianism, but they always take care of their people
What an ahistorical thing to say. Read more books, less comments under cat videos.
kaon_2 7 hours ago [-]
Yeah it was more as a figure of speech. I actually wanted to say even Hitler didn't steal gold medals during the olympics, but I felt that only weakened my point.
ModernMech 16 hours ago [-]
Notably this was after he waged a violent attempt to overthrow the US government. I thought that would have been it for everyone but apparently I guess soccer is the thing.
veeti 8 hours ago [-]
It may be a violent attempt to overthrow the government to you, but just another season of The Apprentice to us.
kichimi 24 hours ago [-]
To add to this, because I think it is important context for Americans who may not be aware, football is seen very officially by many European nations and national governments as a cultural counterpart to many international treaties within Europe that were born out of the desire to bring our respective cultures closer together after the second world war.
It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically.
It is so important, that there are articles written about its importance on EU institutes websites. For example, this one reflects on Footballs importance in relation to the First, Second and Cold wars. https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-footb...
To see Trump so flagrantly manipulate it sends a cultural signal that is hard for those outside of Europe to see, and that by some can be seen as the cultural equivalent of the political threats Trump has made against NATO.
At this point, your average European Trump supporter/right wing populist needs only reminding of Trumps interference to get a complete positional change - that's how bad it is.
geodel 22 hours ago [-]
> It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically.
Sports is peak diversion from real issues, Whether Europe, US or India and so on. The countries can go to hell, people can drown in endless real problems. But if people can be smothered with sport entertainment so they ignore real things whats better than that.
In India whole country can become absolute crap. Worst on any social, economic indicator but as long free cricket broadcast is on TV and mobile, life is good.
ericmay 22 hours ago [-]
> Blatant corruption for zero gain that even the Putin's and Xi Jin Pings never attempted.... was when Trump phoned Infantino to drop a red card during the world cup.
FIFA, a largely European organization created by Europeans for a sport that Americans barely care about and in the center of multiple corruption scandals and controversies over the last few decades and you're really going to sit here and try to tell others that the real wakeup call was when Trump made a phone call to ask that a star player who by many respects shouldn't have received a red card over at best a technicality in the first place be reinstated for the good of sport and competition...?
And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?
I guess Donald Trump's phone call was the real last straw, and something like, idk, 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar dying to construct World Cup facilities is just another day at the anti-corruption office? [1]
There is a big difference between some sports association being greedy/unethical and elected officials abusing their position of power (especially when they sit in the highest positions and there are zero consequences).
ericmay 22 hours ago [-]
Right, its just we all lose respect and we're real mad when Donald Trump makes a phone call about something that, well you know frankly the American public agreed with, and we don't lose respect or whatever and we're not outraged when that same extremely corrupt organization continues to do greedy, unethical, and corrupt things.
It's astounding that European governments would never do corrupt things. Totally never. And if they did, sorry they only draw the line at influencing FIFA.
LeChuck 20 hours ago [-]
Jeez dude. If you have a point to make, just make it. This weird sarcasm is borderline unreadable.
Anyway, everyone agrees with you that FIFA is a corrupt cesspool. The fact that Trump found a corrupt counterparty does not make his open and blatant corruption any less, well, corrupt.
The point here is that if he’s openly abusing his power for something so trivial, what is he doing behind closed doors?
ericmay 20 hours ago [-]
Sorry my point wasn't clear. Let me state if plainly: the OP's comments and points about corruption and Vladimir Putin and Xi Kingpin somehow wouldn't stoop to this level of corruption are fucking stupid.
watwut 21 hours ago [-]
Who exactly is talking about goverments? This was a random citizen having the "oh, so this is that rupture they talk about" moment.
watwut 21 hours ago [-]
Yes, exactly that. And precisedly for that reason.
FIFA was corrupt. Infantino took it on another level, making it massively more corrupt then before. Then he created a peace price which combined corruption with astonishing lack of self respect and mockery.
And then Trump called over the red card, which contrasted with everything before as yes another never seen before level of corruption.
But second, FIFA is not an European institution. It is worldwide org and non European members are large contributors to the corruption. The middle east and afrikan members do like it corrupt, it suits their political goals.
> And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?
Honestly, it even seems so. Trying to directly influence a soccer match, publically changing rules while not even understanding them is a new level.
Moreover, there is no reason to think Trump is less corrupt then Putin or Xi. If anything, he is equally or more corrupt.
ericmay 21 hours ago [-]
A better way to think about it is imagine that FIFA is a massive, roaring inferno of corruption and Europeans are ignoring it and then Donald Trump walks by and tosses a Mcdonalds wrapper on the inferno and it grows every so slightly and now all of a sudden everyone is concerned. Sorry don't care. Most Americans agreed with him doing that as well since the foul was stupid.
There are things worthwhile criticizing folks for. Donald Trump is corrupt. So is FIFA. So are numerous European countries and organizations. But equating Trump making this phone call to "some unheard level that Xi Jingping and Vladimir Putin wouldn't dream of attempting" is absolutely absurd sensationalism that is, frankly, anti-intellectual, dishonest, and only serves to instigate flame wars and other such nonsense.
watwut 20 hours ago [-]
He did not threw "Mcdonalds wrapper on the inferno". He shit on it and took a video of the shit and then threw a grenade on thr said shit. The peace prize would be the "Mcdonalds wrapper". The red card thing was huge additional escalation.
The corruption about who gets the championship and who rips of who is bad. Changing outcomes is entirely different thing.
> But equating Trump making this phone call to "some unheard level that Xi Jingping and Vladimir Putin wouldn't dream of attempting" is absolutely absurd sensationalism
Neither Putin nor Xi would do that phone call. Nor would they proudly brag about making such phone call. That is fairly safe guess. It is not sensationalism. That is just safe guess based on those people previous publically known actions.
It is dishonest and anti-intelectual to pretend otherways, frankly. Putin killed more people in Ukraine. He is worst in that regard. But we are talking about who is more corrupt or who would be insecure enough to call to change red card.
ericmay 20 hours ago [-]
I just can't help but just sit here and laugh at these things.
> Putin killed more people in Ukraine. He is worst in that regard. But we are talking about who is more corrupt or who would be insecure enough to call to change red card.
You're adding an additional detail here that wasn't mentioned in the OP, but there is no doubt about it that both Xi and Vlad would do the same thing, or they might just have someone killed or their family threatened, or sure they might not care about FIFA but didn't Russia under Putin run a state sponsored doping program with his tiny ego and huge corruption orientation? But sure, yea, neither of these guys would ever do something as corrupt as call FIFA and encourage them to overcome a questionable at best call so therefore everyone in Europe is so outraged about Donald Trump and whatever.
This entire conversation and this statement about how all Europeans allegedly feel is nothing but sensationalism.
watwut 18 hours ago [-]
When did Putin or Xi had people killed over soccer? I mean, you want to compare that, murder streak in pacific is going on purely for the "makes me feel more manly" reasons is not better.
Yes Russia run doping program. It is not the only country with regular doping scandals. And yet, they did not had referee change result so that they player can go againts another team.
> therefore everyone in Europe is so outraged about Donald Trump and whatever.
And greenland. Dont forget greenland. And Ukraine, dont forget how USA took Putin side in negotiations. Or tried to blame it for missile shortage after Iran war. Which leads to oil prices. And trade war. And insults. And lies of epic proportions.
Most of Trumps corruption is Americas internal thing. He is enriching himself at the expense of his country. That is not something Europeans would watch that closely. But, they watch the world cup.
ericmay 18 hours ago [-]
> When did Putin or Xi had people killed over soccer?
When did Donald Trump kill people over soccer? What are you talking about?
> Yes Russia run doping program. It is not the only country with regular doping scandals. And yet, they did not had referee change result so that they player can go againts another team.
Yes, the doping scandal is much worse.
> And greenland. Dont forget greenland.
The more people complain about it the more I'm starting to side with the US on this lol.
> And Ukraine, dont forget how USA took Putin side in negotiations.
Yep and don't forget how America is still assisting Ukraine today, we were the ones rushing missiles and supplies to Ukraine and shouting from the rooftops that an invasion was coming while the EU sent helmets, well-wishes cards, and European leaders continued to public state nothing was happening.
> Or tried to blame it for missile shortage after Iran war.
Blame what for missile shortages?
> Which leads to oil prices. And trade war. And insults. And lies of epic proportions.
Ok but none of that has anything to do with FIFA or whatever this nonsense OP is about.
> Most of Trumps corruption is Americas internal thing. He is enriching himself at the expense of his country. That is not something Europeans would watch that closely. But, they watch the world cup.
No, believe me, they watch it very closely. In fact, it's even more important than news in Europe.
watwut 4 hours ago [-]
Literally you brought up killings in "Xi and Vlad would do the same thing, or they might just have someone killed or their family threatened".
> The more people complain about it the more I'm starting to side with the US on this lol.
Like what, people complain about USA trying to invade Greenland and therefore it is OK for US to do so? If people just let it happen, then you would be against it. But since they did not forgot in few months, you are pro-invasion?
Is that what you have in mind?
> we were the ones rushing missiles and supplies to Ukraine
USA is refusing to give missies EU literally paid for. USA stopped military assistance after Trump took power.
> EU sent helmets, well-wishes cards, and European leaders continued to public state nothing was happening.
You are lying. Majority of help is from European countries while USA tries to push Ukraine to unconditionally accept Russian demands.
transcriptase 22 hours ago [-]
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Eurofags 24 hours ago [-]
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petcat 23 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
kabes 23 hours ago [-]
Doesn't matter. There's constant bad calls being made by referees. It shouldn't be, but their humans and make mistakes and it's part of the game. But only the mistake against the US got corrected.
petcat 23 hours ago [-]
How are we explaining Ronaldo not being required to serve his remaining 2-match suspensions at the start of the games?
charlieyu1 23 hours ago [-]
Same, FIFA is just corrupt.
petcat 23 hours ago [-]
Okay so then we are agreeing that FIFA, a European institution, is a deeply corrupt, inconsistent, and unprincipled governing body.
But somehow this was the fault of the US?
pasc1878 23 hours ago [-]
FIFA is NOT a European institution it is the global one.
The European football institution is UEFA which has complained about things like this and is also trying to remove Infantino – but the rest of the world has been bribed enough to keep him on.
petcat 23 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
charlieyu1 22 hours ago [-]
Conversations like this make me want more gatekeeping especially for football. Some people just don’t have respect to customs and traditional practices and the actual untouchables.
To not to sway too far away, well technically yes. However all 55 UEFA members threathened to quit FIFA after Infanito’s plan to privatise the World Cup. It was just last month. And we all know who is behind this.
triceratops 23 hours ago [-]
Does that make the UN American?
petcat 22 hours ago [-]
Is the UN a private organization legally incorporated in the US? The way that FIFA is in Europe/Switzerland?
triceratops 22 hours ago [-]
Would FIFA be less corrupt if it were legally incorporated somewhere else?
I didn't know registering an entity in another place automatically changed the character of the people that run it. That's magic. Literally mind-control.
petcat 22 hours ago [-]
The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution and that has nothing to do with the US.
But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.
triceratops 22 hours ago [-]
> The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution
It has "international" right there in the name. The vast majority of its members are not "European" in any sense. Calling it "European" is offensive to those members and to the footballing world as a whole. It reeks of a colonial attitude.
I'll ask you again: what actually affects how an organization runs? The place that it's registered in, or the people in charge?
FIFA has to be registered somewhere for legal reasons. That doesn't make it of that place.
> But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.
If FIFA were registered in the Caymans would you call it a Caymanian organization?
petcat 22 hours ago [-]
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hgoel 23 hours ago [-]
FIFA is a deeply corrupt institution (IDK if they count as specifically European, but if they do, it doesn't change the fact that they're corrupt). The US government is also deeply corrupt.
One of the crazier ideas to address the deficit is revaluing gold reserves and throwing them at the deficit. Does anyone really think the Trump admin wouldn't consider seizing foreign gold reserves as part of such a move?
I know that instinctively sounds crazy, but this administration attacked Iran without a plan for their closing the Strait of Hormuz, and tariffed uninhabited islands based on an AI-generated list.
They're rational, but they're aggressive and dumb. Treat them as you would treat a guy who starts bar fights; one strategy is quietly moving to the far side of the bar, which is what this appears to be.
midasz 5 hours ago [-]
> Does anyone really think the Trump admin wouldn't consider seizing foreign gold reserves as part of such a move?
There has to be an adult in the room there to tell them this is a really bad idea. I mean I didn't think Putin would invade Ukraine so my track record is iffy but there's a reason the Belgians refuse to use Russian frozen assets - no one would ever put money there ever again. That'd be the end of their banking sector basically.
jmclnx 1 days ago [-]
This shows how much trust in the US has declined due to Trump. Netherlands is not the only or first country to do this, other countries have started this too.
appleappleapple 24 hours ago [-]
And this lost trust will not suddenly reappear when he leaves office. He has damaged our reputation for a generation
kingleopold 24 hours ago [-]
No it's not simple to call "he" did this. WH people, half? of the country supporting him for 2nd time, and wealthy people that donated so much too, it's never "he". Nothing big like that is one persons responsibility. Actions have cons. ?
All elected and supported, especially AFTER how he and his supports lead the so many extra deaths in covid. I know your media does not bring facts but truth is out there.
lokar 22 hours ago [-]
Not half the country. Almost half of the people who voted.
_whiteCaps_ 22 hours ago [-]
IMO if you don't vote, you're tacitly agreeing with whoever gets voted into office.
(Although US voter suppression weakens this argument)
toast0 21 hours ago [-]
That's reasonable enough, but you have to consider it in the context that we don't vote for president, we vote for state electors to vote for president.
If you live in a 'safe' state, tacitly agreeing with your state's electors doesn't mean tacitly agreeing with the electoral college result.
lotsofpulp 21 hours ago [-]
If you can’t be bothered to make your disapproval seen at least once every 4 years, then I consider it a tacit approval. So that actually makes 2/3 of Americans in support of Trump’s brand of America.
rdm_blackhole 21 hours ago [-]
I disagree with your take. You have the right to not vote when you disagree with all parties running.
In fact, from a moral point of view voting for the lesser evil is highly objectionable because you are voting for someone who you do not even support just so that another person you support even less does not get elected.
Its perfectly fine to say, I don't agree with either and I am going to sit this one out otherwise you end up in weird political dynamics that you can see playing out in real time in France for example.
Ruphin 21 hours ago [-]
If your political system does not present you with a candidate that aligns with your interests or beliefs, you should vote to change the political system. Not voting is consent to the status quo.
Ostrogoth 18 hours ago [-]
While I tend to agree with you in principle, that not voting is consenting to the status quo, in the US (outside of swing states) voting is almost an act of futility.
For the executive branch, the US president is not elected by direct vote, but instead by the electoral college, as enshrined in the US Constitution Article 2. The average voter has essentially zero voting influence to change the Constitution, and the plurality voting created by the electoral college intrinsically promotes a two party political system, and further political polarization. There is also a chance in some cases of “faithless electors”.
For judicial seats, while some states hold elections for state/county seats, all federal judges are appointed by the executive branch, which is therefore (IMO) essentially held hostage by the pluralist electoral college.
And for the legislative branch, candidate selection is heavily influenced by the primary elections of the two dominant political parties, before even reaching national elections. It’s also heavily influenced by campaign funds and lobbyist interests. While states have the authority to adopt alternative systems, the vast majority still use plurality voting, and the currently entrenched two-party system is incentivized to keep it that way.
So I can understand why some voters see not participating as a valid protest against the status quo, even if I don’t agree with that action.
rdm_blackhole 20 hours ago [-]
> Not voting is consent to the status quo.
I disagree fundamentally.
Not voting is simply not making a choice. If the choices presented do not align with my preferences then I do not vote. Why would I vote for someone who I don't support? I don't pick the candidates that are offered. Want me to vote? Then get better candidates next time! Until then I will exercise my right to not vote.
Your status quo also assume that either one or both candidates are presenting you with potential change to what has happened in the past whereas most of the time, the choices are simply a continuation of what has been happening aka tinkering on the margins without pissing too many people off.
_whiteCaps_ 20 hours ago [-]
I think purposely spoiling your ballot is a better signal to the parties that none of them are acceptable. Is that possible in your elections? Around here, a spoiled ballot is scrutinized by the party observers, so your message would definitely be heard.
I'd love to see a ballot with ranked choice voting that includes a none of the above option.
rdm_blackhole 19 hours ago [-]
I could technically vote in 3 countries but I vote in none.
My preferred voting system is the ranked choice one in Australia but Australia also has compulsory voting which I disagree with.
I think in a democracy, it is up to the voter to decide if and how much they want to get involved in the democratic process just like a person has the right to join or not a parti, listen or not to a political debate and so on and so forth.
I wish the blank vote was more represented in the democratic process somehow but I don't really have a solution for this problem.
anenefan 13 hours ago [-]
In Australia voting apart from compulsory (with exemptions) as well as anonymous, so the voter is free to mark the paper such that they don't support any of the candidates and suggest what they think is a better candidate. It will be an informal vote, these informal votes are counted and published, but as I've been told, that informal vote count is then split 50-50 between the top two contenders. My locale is in an area with a high informal vote.
Compulsory voting just means that there's no space where some of the population can hop on the high horse of saying the political troubles of the country have nothing to do with them as they didn't vote. I used to work around the loop holes and got out of voting until my early mid 20s when I just didn't give that much of a hoot either way for state or federal politics.
megagpt3 20 hours ago [-]
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Laurel1234 22 hours ago [-]
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appleappleapple 23 hours ago [-]
Totally valid correction, thanks !
verelo 22 hours ago [-]
This! I get frustrated when i hear folks in the US claim Trump has failed them. You failed yourselves. The system is falling apart and barely half of people turn up to participate in elections? What are the rest of us expected to take away from this? Apathy is what I take away from it, and that does not earn my trust.
wartywhoa23 24 hours ago [-]
The legend about the sole man in charge has been carefully crafted and cultivated for ages, but it's never the puppet and always puppet masters in this clown show.
gwbas1c 23 hours ago [-]
Sadly, the way people vote is more complicated than you might believe. Trump is the symptom of malfunctioning system that doesn't give people good options in the ballot box.
triceratops 23 hours ago [-]
I'll say something controversial: Clinton and Harris were both better options than the guy who started his campaign mocking a reporter's disability. If voters had any sense it should've ended right there.
The rationalizing, the "corrupt DNC" arguments and everything else is a cop-out.
028363922092 21 hours ago [-]
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AlexandrB 22 hours ago [-]
Here's a real controversial opinion: If Clinton had won, the eventual backlash would be much greater and have elected a far more odious figure than Trump. America is lucky that Trump is kind of a bumbling oaf that channeled populist rage.
triceratops 22 hours ago [-]
Maybe the backlash would've been in Congress, through the election of more extreme figures on the right and left.
bix6 22 hours ago [-]
Disagree. Trump has done way more damage than Clinton ever could have. The backlash would’ve been similar to post Obama cuz the racists are also the sexists.
22 hours ago [-]
spiderfarmer 22 hours ago [-]
That kind of normalises Trump, which is totally the wrong thing to do. You should not accept this as fact, nor should you tolerate this current regime. Doing so without protest is the biggest problem you have. Your defeatism is a self fulfilling prophecy.
rootusrootus 23 hours ago [-]
That explains how he got almost half the votes on election night, but it does not explain the 1/3 that still to this day support him 100%. There is a pretty substantial underlying problem in play and Trump is the symptom, but the problem is deeper than a malfunctioning political system.
mindslight 22 hours ago [-]
That explains how he got the votes on election night in 2016. A vote for Grump in 2016 was completely understandable. But he should have plainly been a one term president, after his abjectly terrible handling of Covid (for starters, we needed leadership rather than dividership). But unfortunately in our upside-down world, Covid actually handed Grump a big excuse for why his first term was such an exercise in failure. And if there is one thing Grump is good at, it's weaseling responsibility onto others - a quality that his followers greatly admire as it soothes their own consciences as well.
rootusrootus 20 hours ago [-]
> if there is one thing Grump is good at, it's weaseling responsibility onto others
That is true, I struggle to think of a single time he has taken responsibility for anything. But it works, his supporters actually believe that he is infallible and just can't get competent help. Or it's the deep state. Or something.
lokar 22 hours ago [-]
It is almost unheard of in the US for an elected politician to poll lower than 30%, it seems to be a floor. This is for both parties, and all sorts of terrible behavior.
22 hours ago [-]
SideburnsOfDoom 22 hours ago [-]
> almost unheard of in the US for an elected politician to poll lower than 30%, it seems to be a floor
Alan Keyes apparently set the floor at 27%, which is not far below 30%
> Obama vs. Alan Keyes. ... Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement.
- being a last minute insert when Jack Ryan was caught in a sex scandal (who was already fighting an uphill battle with sharing a last name with the corrupt former governor)
- being a carpetbagger (he didn't live in Illinois at any point until running for senate)
- running as a hard-line social conservative in a state where the GOP is torn between appealing to suburban Chicago fiscal conservatives and downstate Illinois social conservatives
SideburnsOfDoom 20 hours ago [-]
And also being a person of colour, which is tough in the "hard-line social conservative" lane, where that is often a negative with those voters. Against another person of colour, who could pick up the other voters for whom it is a positive.
And the crazy.
idbnstra 22 hours ago [-]
yes! we need ranked choice voting everywhere!
GJim 23 hours ago [-]
Are you saying there was a worse option than Trump?
Really?
Because unless the alternative option was a diminutive Austrian with a dodgy 'tache, I find that rather hard to believe.
The reality is America voted for Trump (TWICE!) because they wanted him. The rest of the world knows this, and is now acting accordingly.
EDIT: Downvotes coming from the brainwashed MAGA crowd!
SideburnsOfDoom 22 hours ago [-]
I disagree not because "brainwashed MAGA crowd" but because people saying "it can't be worse" are almost always wrong. Unless you're starving in the ruins of your house in one of the world's war zones, in which case you're likely focussed on survival, not saying that.
Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option. Don't dismiss it out of hand.
People in the UK voted for Brexit because "well it can't be worse, can it?" They were suckers.
I don't disagree with the "The reality is" line.
triceratops 21 hours ago [-]
> Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option
But none of them were on the presidential ballot in 2016, 2020, or 2024.*
*Under one of the two parties that has any chance of actually winning.
SideburnsOfDoom 20 hours ago [-]
Sure, but wait for 2028.
basisword 21 hours ago [-]
>> People in the UK voted for Brexit because "well it can't be worse, can it?" They were suckers.
I don't think that's true it all. They were promised that it would be better and sold pretty obvious lies. Same applies to Trump. Unfortunately the intelligence of the average voter is now at the bottom of the barrel and I wouldn't expect that to improve soon. Just look at the support people like Andrew Tate get among young people.
SideburnsOfDoom 20 hours ago [-]
> don't think that's true it all.
It's not true of them all, but it definitely is true of at least some of them.
I know this because I heard it said in those words in a vox pops interview shortly before the Brexit vote.
rdm_blackhole 20 hours ago [-]
I am not sure why you are being downvoted, because IMHO you are correct.
If Trump was an isolated incident, sure, but he is not. In Europe the far-right and far-left parties are rising in many countries and the traditional parties are crumbling.
I think there is a serious lack of trust in the institutions and in the politicians that is spreading around the world at a quick pace and many people are just fed up with the status-quo that has been in place since the fall of the USSR.
People want change, not small marginal tinkering on the edges, they want to see that things move decisively in one way or the other and they are not afraid to flip the table and see what happens.
andsoitis 24 hours ago [-]
Voters cannot be held accountable for all the specific things the person they elected do.
That much should be self-evident.
dhosek 24 hours ago [-]
He’s doing exactly what he said he would do when he ran. People who voted for him can very much be held accountable.
pton_xd 21 hours ago [-]
Technically, he campaigned on not starting new wars... so he's doing the worst combination of what he said he would do, AND what he said he wouldn't do. Amazing!
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
> People who voted for him can very much be held accountable.
Can you give an example of how, in practice, it would work to hold millions of voters accountable for what their elected representative does?
Worth picking not just Trump, but let's say a few other Presidents around the world, including someone you voted for.
Laurel1234 21 hours ago [-]
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AnimalMuppet 23 hours ago [-]
When he ran, did he say that he'd make tariff rates bounce around like a kangaroo on speed? No, I don't think he did.
Did he say that he'd threaten to annex Canada and Greenland? Not that I recall.
Did he say that he'd start a war with Iran? No, I'm pretty sure he said "No new wars."
Look, he's a loose cannon. Everyone who voted for him should have known that. But no, he's not doing "exactly what he said he would do when he ran". Some of what he's doing is what he said, and some is completely contradictory to what he said.
(Credit where due: I stole the "kangaroo on speed" line from an unpublished short story. Don't remember the author, or I'd give them credit by name.)
pebble 22 hours ago [-]
If you found anything he did surprising you haven’t been paying attention to him at all.
mylies43 22 hours ago [-]
So what? None of this is a surprise at all, if his voters fell for his "president of peace" bit then thats on them, at minimum they KNEW they were voting for a loose cannon who had no morals, cared about himself, insulted everyone around him, had terrible monetary and international policy... He bank rupted CASINOS for gods sake. They had every sign the 2nd time around, anyone who voted for him and regrets it now mainly does so because his bad choices are now personally affecting them lets not get it twisted. They were all happy as long as "others" got owned and not them
That’s the definition of democracy. Of course voting is significant and has consequences.
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
> That’s the definition of democracy.
In a democracy, it is the elected officials, who are meant to represent the voter, that are held accountable. Not the voter.
> Of course voting is significant and has consequences.
Tautology but also not relevant. How do you propose the voter be held accountable?
megagpt3 20 hours ago [-]
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ben_w 23 hours ago [-]
Anyone can be held accountable for things they are responsible for, the question is how they'll react to being held thusly.
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
> Anyone can be held accountable for things they are responsible for, the question is how they'll react to being held thusly.
Voters are responsible for selecting representatives, but they are not responsible for running things and making the kinds of decisions that elected officials need to and do make.
buttercraft 21 hours ago [-]
You might have a better point if the elected person hadn't made such a big show of following "mandates" from the voters. You can't have it both ways.
tgv 23 hours ago [-]
If they could have known or suspected those things, then yes, they bear the responsibility. And Trump's intentions were there for all to see.
andsoitis 22 hours ago [-]
> If they could have known or suspected those things, then yes, they bear the responsibility.
In a situation like this, I like to do a thought experiment where I replace "Trump" with "Republican voter" in a headline or a story to see whether that idea holds up.
tgv 6 hours ago [-]
That doesn't make sense. People let other people do the dirty work. Your imaginary Republican voter may or may not be capable of some action, but if that person voted for the persons executing that action, he or she cannot disclaim responsibility for it (unless truly misled, of course). You cannot disconnect yourself of consequences you helped set in motion.
c-linkage 22 hours ago [-]
Voters can be held accountable; he demonstrated exactly what he was the first time in office and then people voted for him again.
24 hours ago [-]
basisword 21 hours ago [-]
If you vote for a man that thinks he can "grab women by the pussy" because he's famous, and then you vote for him AGAIN, you should be held accountable for everything he does. It's patently obvious he's an absolutely awful person and completely untrustworthy.
exe34 23 hours ago [-]
What if they knew what they were voting for?
wccrawford 23 hours ago [-]
And I'd argue that it should.
He opened the door, and I find it very, very unlikely that either side will close it after this. Dems and Reps will both use this to take control in ways that would have been unthinkable prior to Trump's first election. The only way to restore any measure of that trust would be to pass laws that prevent this kind of abuse, and there's no way that politicians will give up power they've gained.
bluealienpie 23 hours ago [-]
They had the laws to stop him but since congress stopped legislating, it gave the supreme courts wide discretion to approve executive actions. Strong executive isn’t a flaw of the system, it’s the inevitable consequence of years of media illiteracy and vast sums of money in politics enabled by citizens united.
toast0 21 hours ago [-]
Passed laws don't seem very constraining. Between simple disregard and disregard plus eventual compliance after lengthy court review, there's a lot of time spent under unlawful orders and regulations. There's no personal liability for (most?) of these unlawful actions and Trump doesn't seem to care about continuity of government or having a legacy of doing unlawful things.
Impeachment could be a check on his power, but impeachment is a kangaroo court with a political jury, so he would need to piss off a lot more Republican senators than he has.
A few presidental impeachments over unlawful acts ending in conviction would change future behavior. But it seems unlikely that we'll get there.
unethical_ban 22 hours ago [-]
The ideal would be that a new president is elected who uses current powers to reverse/rebuild what Trump has torn down and have their "one big bill" that Congress seems to pull off per president be a reforms package that locks in additional checks and legislative powers against the Executive. The Unitary Executive theory is the most dangerous attack on our Constitution in a long time.
On the other hand, a right-wing Supreme Court may try to block any reforms that check the Executive. The Legislature's ultimate oversight power of the Exec is impeachment, and they have decided that no amount of corruption or crime or destruction should be checked as long as it "feels right".
petre 22 hours ago [-]
Trust in the US started to decline dating back in the Obama era when they listened to Merkel's phone etc. Trump has finally eroded what was left of it. Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe are still trying to keep a good relationship with thd US regardless, because they don't want to lose US support due to Trump's whims… err transactional diplomacy.
pvaldes 15 hours ago [-]
The weapons of mass destruction happened much before Obama
TalkingCodeMonk 24 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
retired 22 hours ago [-]
In the end it is all about money. Putin killed hundreds of EU citizens and we are still buying his gas, oil, uranium and fertilizer.
Trump can bomb cities in Europe and we would trade with the US. I doubt we will ever fully separate from the US.
pvaldes 15 hours ago [-]
> Trump can bomb cities in Europe and we would trade with the US
This is the same level of delusion that: And Iran will never dare to close the strait.
mikewarot 23 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
graemep 22 hours ago [-]
Interesting. I am always suspicious of "great man" explanations of history and the same applies to current events - not that individual choices do not matter, but they are constrained and influenced by bigger social forces.
Something similar happened in the UK, as the major parties moved towards a consensus as they both went after critical centrist voters (because the left and right voters were not going anywhere else - at the time anyway).
watwut 22 hours ago [-]
It is result of long term conservative project. And somehow you managed to blame non-conservatives for it.
Trump is a cause of destruction. He is literally making those decisions. He is to blame. Trump and project 2025 are what republicans and conservatives were trying to achieve for years and years. Again, it hapened intentionally.
But noooooo, must blame Obama. Anyone except directly responsable organizations and people.
mikewarot 20 hours ago [-]
There are always insane people waiting with a plan, its the job of government, and politicians to keep them at bay. [1,2]
People pushing for project 2025 are conservative politicians and republicans. They were in government the whole time. And they were in government because conservatives and republicans want that plan.
They are not some kind of insane people outside of politics and government. They are literally the republican party.
adolph 23 hours ago [-]
Another interesting aspect to this story is the flow of value from US Treasuries to gold.
Total gold held by central banks globally was valued at approximately $4tr at
the start of 2026, surpassing, for the first time, the roughly $3.9tr in US
Treasuries held by the same institutions. This marked a reordering of reserve
asset preferences with significant long-term implications. [0]
What are the long term implications? Gold can’t reasonably be the medium so new currency baskets?
megagpt3 20 hours ago [-]
Implications are on the treasury side. Without treasury buyers the US dollar collapses or hyperinflates or the US government is bankrupt or some other widespread system failure, in any case the entire US economy falls apart without treasury buyers. But these things move slowly.
bix6 19 hours ago [-]
Bot?
Nathanael_M 22 hours ago [-]
Literally moves? Physically moves? Come on, doesn't this make your hands itch? Is it heist time folks?
jsiepkes 22 hours ago [-]
It's in the article; They sold gold in NYC and with that money bought gold in London.
sprremix 17 hours ago [-]
The article also mentions a physical movement:
"A total of more than 27 tonnes of gold was physically transferred from the locations in North America to DNB Cash Centre in Zeist, Utrecht, between March and August. Another 59 tonnes of gold kept in New York was also sold off during this time, while the equivalent amount of gold was purchased in London."
They do not explain _how_ it was moved, though.
mapleoin 21 hours ago [-]
But how did they move the money between NYC and London?
mavbo 21 hours ago [-]
They traded some 1s and 0s for some different 1s and 0s
xxs 20 hours ago [-]
likely at some point the gold bars would be ferried as well if the 1s and 0s fail to balance anytime soon(ish)
21 hours ago [-]
lostmsu 11 hours ago [-]
Who bought it?
MadrasThorn 22 hours ago [-]
Everyone now has to hedge against the dollar because Elon, bank run Thiel, and Trump have taken over the system.
I will not get better until they are removed.
It is not in their interest to save the federal government, US dollar, or the economy.
They are all BRIICS backed and want the dollar and trans atlanticism, backed by the US military, to fail.
y-c-o-m-b 21 hours ago [-]
> It is not in their interest to save the federal government, US dollar, or the economy.
I think "save" is not even in the room with us; they seem to be actively harming every industry: farming, food, oil, electronics, manufacturing, healthcare, etc. It's a full on assault.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", but in this case we're dealing with malicious actors and it's apparent these are malicious actions. DOGE was just the first step.
At first I thought they were trying to establish something that looked closer to Russia, where they can make life just hard enough for them to keep accumulating wealth indefinitely. Now I'm worried they're going for something that resembles Africa's poorest nations, where we fight amongst ourselves over resources that are increasingly constrained.
MadrasThorn 20 hours ago [-]
Thiel himself said he wants to turn the US into a Weimar republic
Rover222 21 hours ago [-]
What do you even mean by 'removing' Elon from 'the system'?
megagpt3 20 hours ago [-]
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dododore 24 hours ago [-]
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expedition32 24 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
consp 23 hours ago [-]
It's the 11th largest in the world, or about 7.5% of the US reserves which is a lot more than the gdp difference (4.4%)
downrightmike 20 hours ago [-]
I think fort knox has long been pillaged
josefritzishere 23 hours ago [-]
Is this to prevent the Orange man from stealing it? What do they imagine the risk is?
consp 23 hours ago [-]
Stated in another article it said the reason is it cannot be used as a bargaining chip during trade disputes. They specifically mentioned it would likely be more difficult to use in emergency situations when located in North America (without mentioning specific reasons).
23 hours ago [-]
ben_w 23 hours ago [-]
Well, one of their near neighbouring countries is currently worried about Trump stealing their territory, and he's made threats to annex Canada too, so it's not exactly an unreasonable fear.
dukeyukey 23 hours ago [-]
Would you put it past Trump to use gold stores as a threat?
insane_dreamer 16 hours ago [-]
the orange man is so unstable that the specific risk is a known unknown
weatherlite 23 hours ago [-]
Their national color is orange so they should get along with him fine
midasz 5 hours ago [-]
America first. The Netherlands, second?
maxdo 23 hours ago [-]
Just in time before major European continental war begin. Strategic move.
For the context : German airport was officially attacked by Russia . And that’s only one of many incidents. UK is on the radar of official Russian hawks for a very long time
ben_w 23 hours ago [-]
More a vs. US strategy than a vs. Russia strategy.
Russia has been weird for a long time, they are doing sub-threshold-of-war attacks for a while now.
But the USA? Outright threatening allies, talking about annexing some of them, making more threats against other allies who make moves to defend those allies? And he's got a known love for gold, started wars without bothering to inform allies he's now trying to punish for failing to provide help that he told them he didn't even want.
Muromec 23 hours ago [-]
US is doing now to Europe and Canada what russia was doing for the last 30 (or 300) years to their neighbours. No response -- push further is the game
kakacik 22 hours ago [-]
Yeah russia has been waging war against the west basically since putin came into power. That paranoid kgb fuck sees anything free as direct threat to their model of how to run a dictatorship and very much a personal threat on top of that (he may not be completely wrong given how proactive cia has been and their general methods of subversion). Divide and conquer, subvert EU and produce infighting on some emotional topics with ideal goal of breakup to pick countries one by one, subvert US to focus more inward and stop policing the world, ideally weaking it long term.
This is nothing new for anybody interested in the topic, its all very open and public (which is kind of the point I guess to manipulate public perception too). Every single secret service know this as 101 reality. In same way ie war in Ukraine started in 2014 in all measurable ways, not 2022.
US part... well its painful to watch, especially the incompetence or elephant-in-porcelain-shop part, of a shop that took many decades to build. But its good long term for Europe and rest of west - we became uber weak and over-reliant on US bases, their tech and power projection, and even if its 2026, influence not backed by real power means very little in actual world out there. Be provably strong or vanish seems to be mantra. Its smart to adapt to reality rather than expect the world to rearrange itself to some idealistic wishful thinking, however nice it may feel and however well it may have worked during easy peaceful times.
cindyllm 18 hours ago [-]
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wafflemaker 23 hours ago [-]
Thinking that there's a major continental war about to begin is exactly what Russia wants people to think and what they push through their propaganda machine. It's also good for some governments, because then nobody questions military spending. Poland just bought 96 Apache assault helicopters for 10B USD. It takes just 1M USD in drones to take them down, just to show how absurd show of loyalty to US that deal was.
There's issues with defending the east flank. Namely, without taking full control of the Baltic Sea, Baltic States and Finland will run out of provisions in weeks.
strictnein 22 hours ago [-]
> It takes just 1M USD in drones to take them down
You can buy incendiary armor piercing bullets that could take one down for $5, but strangely they've been utilized for decades.
Finland will run out of provisions in a weeks? How so? Will Russia control their western border?
carlosjobim 21 hours ago [-]
Here we go again... Finland and the Baltics are "the East flank" when Russia and Germany want to go to war again. Excellent and fun battle fields for them, without a doubt. Far away from important regions and important people.
somenameforme 23 hours ago [-]
That was a rather obvious false flag attempt, presumably from Ukraine. It was a weaponized drone, the first that would have been directly used against NATO, that was found just outside a Ukrainian plane and by amazing coincidence just sat there instead of detonating.
When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.
---
That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories and other things that have been going boom, but it's always going to be done with plausible deniability - sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia, and the like. They're not going to just start bombing planes in airports with drones.
maxdo 22 hours ago [-]
Wow. This post serves as a great example on how propaganda can brainwash people brain. Sure , Ukraine whose survival solely depends on EU, plans a false flag attempt . To achieve what ? Russia openly attacked territory of eu with drones , infiltration, poison operations , not to mention Slovakia , Orban etc . What is there to prove for Ukraine ???
somenameforme 21 hours ago [-]
Ukraine is, in the most positive framing - in a war of attrition that isn't going well. They want greater involvement, ideally much more directly, from NATO countries. And Germany is certainly going to be happy to play along because the AfD is quickly becoming the largest single party in that country. They are Euroskeptical and against continuing the war with Russia. A direct Russian attack on Germany would likely undermine the AfD's growing support.
But since I've been brainwashed by propaganda, perhaps you can enlighten me on what benefits you believe Russia would see for themselves in deciding to directly attack a NATO country in a way that would lack any plausible deniability. In particular you need to come up with some sort of argument here for how they might see this as viably resulting in an improved positioning for themselves.
maxdo 20 hours ago [-]
Yeah and that’s exactly what add happily picked up as any MAGA clone eg Afd,FvD, Orban etc . Populism , echo different voices . In this case :
Ukriane is dragging us into war . Russia openly warm up this agenda by softly attacking Poland , Romania , other areas. Mixed with nord stream and other similar voices .
Under different angle they will tell this is Ukraine’s false flag attempt … oh evil ukriane , these bastards who try to survive how dare they are
Anyways still 0 political win , only losses . Current German government can’t defend themself and start talking NATO , that is again very unpopular among maga-Germans , since they hate USA
pvaldes 14 hours ago [-]
> What benefits Russia would see in deciding to directly attack NATO in a way that would lack any plausible deniability.
Several possible benefits. In the last months Russia has tried repeatedly to lure Nato to a response for their constant provocations.
This way they can claim that Russia is being attacked by Nato and 1) have an excuse to start a massive mobilization of their reserve soldiers planned for this fall and 2) activate the mutual defense treatise with China and NK so they force both countries to participate directly in the war.
somenameforme 9 hours ago [-]
Some issues I see here:
- Zelensky has claimed literally every single year that Russia is planning a massive general mobilization. This has never happened nor anything at all like it. The latest claim will likely turn out as all others prior.
- Russia does not have a mutual defense pact with China, nor any sort of military alliance at all. In fact China could cripple Ukraine at any moment if they so chose. 'Ukrainian' drones are loaded with components stamped 'Made in China.' China has historically been, and remains, the world's merchant whose primary interest is themselves, as should be the case for all sovereign nations.
- Your scenario relies on Russia believing that they'd have a greater edge in a direct Russia + North Korea vs Ukraine + NATO conflict than in the current status quo of Russia vs Ukraine with North Korea and NATO playing significant but limited auxiliary roles. This seems highly improbably since they already had endless reasonable justifications to create this scenario if they wanted, and have constantly sidestepped it. By contrast this is the exact scenario that Ukraine and warhawks in NATO have been trying to create. But outside some unprecedented escalation from Russia, Western nations will never tolerate coffins being draped in any color except yellow and blue.
qw12jh 21 hours ago [-]
After observing the talk as opposed to the actions of Meloni and Trump, I would bet that the AfD would continue the war as is.
Weidel would make a "Notwendige Politikwende" speech and that's it. They'll then cut social services and enact pro-business laws and make some noise about immigration until ordered by the industry to allow it.
somenameforme 21 hours ago [-]
I don't think the fear in most politics is about the actions of the 'newcomers', but about potential of the old guard losing power. In the US if a third party started looking like a real threat, Rs and Ds would 100% come together to frame them as the greatest threat of humanity to ever exist, exactly as happened with Perot even in the age before hyper hyperbole.
Like you alluded to Meloni went from end of the world to business as usual in remarkably short order, and the same could viably if not likely happen with AfD as well, but the bigger change behind the scenes there is that her party went from 2% in 2013, to leading Italy today - and that gain came at the expense of the loss of power by whatever the older establishment was in Italy.
megagpt4 20 hours ago [-]
[dead]
Muromec 23 hours ago [-]
Don't discount russian incompetence and sloppiness. They are really big on half assing everything
mopsi 18 hours ago [-]
> That was a rather obvious false flag attempt, presumably from Ukraine.
German officials have identified two Russians behind this, one of them linked to Russian secret services, and a number of other countries where those people have been active previously are corroborating.
strictnein 22 hours ago [-]
> That was a rather obvious false flag attempt
No, it wasn't.
> That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories
They're involved in all of them.
> sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia
This isn't a movie. They pay criminals to do criminal activity. They're not utilizing "sleeper agents" to burn down a building.
>When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.
What does this even mean? Are you equating Ukraine with Iran and the Houthis?
bell-cot 23 hours ago [-]
> For the context:
Comparing that German airport "attack" by Russia to the 9/11 attack by Mr. bin Laden - would you say that all gold reserves should have been moved out of the USA back in 2001?
jabroni_salad 23 hours ago [-]
Looking at TFA, they are moving it to a venue where selling off the gold can happen quickly. This kind of thing was not necessary for the USA's approach to funding the War on Terror because we decided on a really innovative combo of Taking On Debt and also Just Not Accounting For Things which will surely have no consequence later on.
blitzar 23 hours ago [-]
Didn't dear leader (Trump) just say he was going to invade the Bond Market?
If a shooting war breaks out beween the US and the Bond Market, the gold isnt safe anywhere.
SH16q 23 hours ago [-]
No, the German US lapdogs put out a statement that the drones in Leipzig “are known to us from other Russian hybrid operations and its war against Ukraine” and that they “pointed to a high degree of technical expertise”.
So high in fact that the operation malfunctioned. Precisely what a false flag would do.
The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.
All that these stupid politics accomplish is that the AfD will have 35% in the next elections so Germany can enjoy Trump-like corruption and the industry can exploit people even more. At this point one wonders if the CDU is in on it and the AfD is secretly already part of the uniparty, public theater of forbidding the AfD notwithstanding.
strictnein 22 hours ago [-]
A false flag attack would malfunction? Why not do damage to really up the reaction? Even after an explosion there's plenty of pieces left to investigate and figure out where the devices came from. Just throw some parts made in [insert target of false flag here] and you're all set.
> The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.
What "oil rich" Baltic states are you referring to? Is the US going to takeover Norway?
jajaja1287 21 hours ago [-]
No damage because they need the Antonovs.
Parts can be obtained from Russia by Russian speaking Ukrainians that are indistinguishable from Russians.
You are making up "oil rich" Baltic states. The comment said "various oil rich states", i.e. Iran and Venzuela.
I assume you volunteer for the front?
strictnein 16 hours ago [-]
> Parts can be obtained from Russia by Russian speaking Ukrainians that are indistinguishable from Russians.
I'm not sure what the point of that is? I can order Russian parts online. Too many people watch movies and think all this subterfuge is needed.
> You are making up "oil rich" Baltic states. The comment said "various oil rich states", i.e. Iran and Venzuela.
I made up this quote up?
> The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries
What, exactly, are you referring to here? The US is going to expand the war in the Baltics to get the oil in Venezuela? How does that make any sense at all?
> No damage because they need the Antonovs.
Ok? Then blow up something next to it then, or some ground support people. Really make an impact and sell it!
> I assume you volunteer for the front?
Such an old argument that's never made any sense. I think there should be teachers, firefighters, police, doctors, etc. I do not need to become one of them because I think they should exist. I have, however, donated $XXk to Ukraine for their efforts, make donations to various groups on a monthly basis, and will donate another $5-10k from my Donor Advised fund this winter - all of which they need far more than some middle aged American dude showing.
I get that you are having problems dealing with your country's leadership making such horrible decisions, but pretending like it's all a big conspiracy is just detaching you from reality and will make the fall even harder for you.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_repatriation#France
https://www.bundesbank.de/en/tasks/topics/bundesbank-complet...
They’re not exiting all the gold held in North America; instead they’re rebalancing so that for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk.
European countries aren’t worried that China will conquer the U.S. and they’d lose access to their gold because a hostile Chinese government controls it.
The increased risk is that the U.S. was considered basically risk free for allies, and now the U.S. isn’t considered risk free anymore and allied status is also at risk.
> whereas Venezuela has experienced severe political authoritarianism and a deep, multi-year economic collapse, and a massive humanitarian exodus of millions of citizens
none of which has been resolved by the US violently removing their leader and taking over their oil
If a government is willing to go after the property of its own citizens without due process, foreign investors have to think: "What's to stop the same from happening to me?" Even if that foreign investor's a central bank.
[1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunki...
[2] Maybe the truckers' protest went too far; they were blocking roads. The point isn't whether they deserved to be punished; the point is that their accounts were frozen without going through the laws and court system.
[3] This was in 2022, so it has nothing to do with the current US administration.
These were not "protests", they were a sustained attempt to appeal to the wrong level of government for policies of a foreign government by a bunch of people who were riled up on the internet. Highlights included nazi flags, guns, harassing and threatening women and local residents, etc.
what is most telling is that when you search for commentary about the Canadian federal government freezing bank accounts, a significant portion of links are from reactionary, right wing websites.
That's exactly the service the commodities markets provide: they will absorb a small trade without anyone incurring the costs of shipping precious metals, and they know who to call to get it shipped once there's enough supply/demand imbalance to make shipping it worthwhile.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fish
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Gold_(Spain)
Given Spain’s history it is incredible that the gold collected over centuries was spent in a few years.
The wiki article is very carefully tip toeing that there is no evidence that the Soviets defrauded or abused the Spanish, but it is hard to believe that 72% of the world’s gold reserves were visibly spent in a few years.
I did not investigate further but I understood the documents are not completely public, and my conspiracy hat tells me that is because it is a national humiliation.
This also contributed significantly to the Communist (Stalinist) faction winning the internecine struggle on the left against the Anarchists and Trotskyists, but the quid pro quo was loyalty to the Soviet Union.
In hindsight we know they lost anyway, so this seems really silly, but at the time everyone involved believed they were in a completely existential struggle against fascism that was more important than literally anything else.
For anyone interested Orwell's Homage to Catalonia is an excellent book although it's just one man's perspective and may not be entirely historically accurate
It's also the idiotic thing about gold, a metal that has no more or less inherent monetary value than a fiat currency =)
In gold, you trust that everyone is believing gold has value. And that it is commmon knowledge (in the logic sense [0])
Saying that gold has no more or less inherent monetary value than fiat currency assuming a magic wand that can change a large percentage of people's belief.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge_(logic)
I agree, the price of gold depends on demand like everything else. Although gold just has some inherent utility value in addition to scarcity that makes it less likely for the price to go to zero, other stuff like cryptocurrency have only scarcity and can go to zero much more easily.
if the gold has cheaper would be used quite alot due to being the only metal not oxidizing (the other one being platinum which is even rarer and comes from the same ore source)
I don’t know why people keep repeating that. Half of gold production is used in industry and for jewellery. And gold has never lost its value the way that some paper currencies have. It’s not like anyone can print gold bars.
I think the OPs point is that gold is an arbitrary metal that has been infused with value, just like fiat currency is some paper that has been infused with value. Paper also has 'useful' uses, but that isn't underpinning the value of fiat currency.
Yes, I'll grant that gold is stable in that it doesn't corroded , it's somewhat rare, etc, so it is better suited than other metals, there's still no intrinsic reason to value it though.
I don't think this is a hill that either the op or I is willing to die on though. It is an observation of human behaviour, rather than a statement that gold _should not_ be the world store of value.
...you just provided intrinsic reasons for why gold has value. Humans need to trade, bartering goods and services directly is less efficient than using a currency, and gold has qualities that make it more useful as a currency than other materials. It is the opposite of an arbitrary metal, it is a material that has specific desirable qualities hence chosen to be used as a currency by many societies.
https://www.macrotrends.net/1335/dollar-vs-gold-comparison-l...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
Fact is, it was not a issue before, because of trust.
"for more resilience against a backdrop of increased geopolitical risk." is just nice wording for "Trump is burning down all bridges".
It is more multifaceted than that. To wit: they're leaving a substantial amount still in North America.
America's actions is a big part of it, but it isn't the only reason.
You have to see all European diplomacy through that lens. Everybody’s tiptoeing around the orange idiot’s feelings and meanwhile working hard to make sure we’re never again so dependent on a country that’s so untrustworthy. This gold move is one of the many little steps taken in that direction.
New York 31.3% 18.5% −12.8 pp
Ottawa 19.7% 18.5% −1.2 pp
London 18.1% 32.1% +14.0 pp
Zeist 30.8% 30.8% 0 pp
Seems it is mostly because there was less trust in the USA, and added a little bit from Canada to make it less obvious.
They've previously stated to be far more worried about the dependency on VISA and MasterCard than the gold reserves in the US.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2560460-dnb-maakt-zich-zorgen-over-am...
Yeah, that isn't really a thing anymore.
A year ago the opposite was being reported on. No clue of the relative numbers, but its telling none of the stories about this are providing the long-term data.
Needless to say trust is close to 0% throughout the population - even the right wing populists distance themselves from Trump - and this is the consequence. I fear we are heading into dangerous times.
Surely you mean couldn't care less.
My point was that what may look like a mistake or a contradiction is just cultural development of natural language.
Another example is the British expression "It would be cheap at half the price"
No, it's not.
Could they?
The point is that it's so blatant for such little gain, it's still a game. I.e. if he is willing to do that so openly for such low stakes, imagine what he does behind closed doors when it matters.
Funny thing, I recently saw comment under Turkey cat video, saying something like
> Stray cats in live better than homeless in US.
What an ahistorical thing to say. Read more books, less comments under cat videos.
It is so important, that many countries make it illegal to hide international football matches behind paywalls, specifically.
It is so important, that there are articles written about its importance on EU institutes websites. For example, this one reflects on Footballs importance in relation to the First, Second and Cold wars. https://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/alerts/european-footb...
To see Trump so flagrantly manipulate it sends a cultural signal that is hard for those outside of Europe to see, and that by some can be seen as the cultural equivalent of the political threats Trump has made against NATO.
At this point, your average European Trump supporter/right wing populist needs only reminding of Trumps interference to get a complete positional change - that's how bad it is.
Sports is peak diversion from real issues, Whether Europe, US or India and so on. The countries can go to hell, people can drown in endless real problems. But if people can be smothered with sport entertainment so they ignore real things whats better than that.
In India whole country can become absolute crap. Worst on any social, economic indicator but as long free cricket broadcast is on TV and mobile, life is good.
FIFA, a largely European organization created by Europeans for a sport that Americans barely care about and in the center of multiple corruption scandals and controversies over the last few decades and you're really going to sit here and try to tell others that the real wakeup call was when Trump made a phone call to ask that a star player who by many respects shouldn't have received a red card over at best a technicality in the first place be reinstated for the good of sport and competition...?
And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?
I guess Donald Trump's phone call was the real last straw, and something like, idk, 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar dying to construct World Cup facilities is just another day at the anti-corruption office? [1]
I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic...
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/r...
It's astounding that European governments would never do corrupt things. Totally never. And if they did, sorry they only draw the line at influencing FIFA.
FIFA was corrupt. Infantino took it on another level, making it massively more corrupt then before. Then he created a peace price which combined corruption with astonishing lack of self respect and mockery.
And then Trump called over the red card, which contrasted with everything before as yes another never seen before level of corruption.
But second, FIFA is not an European institution. It is worldwide org and non European members are large contributors to the corruption. The middle east and afrikan members do like it corrupt, it suits their political goals.
> And you're also going to claim that this "level of corruption" is something Vladimir Putin or Xi Jingping and their corrupt authoritarian regimes would never dream of attempting?
Honestly, it even seems so. Trying to directly influence a soccer match, publically changing rules while not even understanding them is a new level.
Moreover, there is no reason to think Trump is less corrupt then Putin or Xi. If anything, he is equally or more corrupt.
There are things worthwhile criticizing folks for. Donald Trump is corrupt. So is FIFA. So are numerous European countries and organizations. But equating Trump making this phone call to "some unheard level that Xi Jingping and Vladimir Putin wouldn't dream of attempting" is absolutely absurd sensationalism that is, frankly, anti-intellectual, dishonest, and only serves to instigate flame wars and other such nonsense.
The corruption about who gets the championship and who rips of who is bad. Changing outcomes is entirely different thing.
> But equating Trump making this phone call to "some unheard level that Xi Jingping and Vladimir Putin wouldn't dream of attempting" is absolutely absurd sensationalism
Neither Putin nor Xi would do that phone call. Nor would they proudly brag about making such phone call. That is fairly safe guess. It is not sensationalism. That is just safe guess based on those people previous publically known actions.
It is dishonest and anti-intelectual to pretend otherways, frankly. Putin killed more people in Ukraine. He is worst in that regard. But we are talking about who is more corrupt or who would be insecure enough to call to change red card.
> Putin killed more people in Ukraine. He is worst in that regard. But we are talking about who is more corrupt or who would be insecure enough to call to change red card.
You're adding an additional detail here that wasn't mentioned in the OP, but there is no doubt about it that both Xi and Vlad would do the same thing, or they might just have someone killed or their family threatened, or sure they might not care about FIFA but didn't Russia under Putin run a state sponsored doping program with his tiny ego and huge corruption orientation? But sure, yea, neither of these guys would ever do something as corrupt as call FIFA and encourage them to overcome a questionable at best call so therefore everyone in Europe is so outraged about Donald Trump and whatever.
This entire conversation and this statement about how all Europeans allegedly feel is nothing but sensationalism.
Yes Russia run doping program. It is not the only country with regular doping scandals. And yet, they did not had referee change result so that they player can go againts another team.
> therefore everyone in Europe is so outraged about Donald Trump and whatever.
And greenland. Dont forget greenland. And Ukraine, dont forget how USA took Putin side in negotiations. Or tried to blame it for missile shortage after Iran war. Which leads to oil prices. And trade war. And insults. And lies of epic proportions.
Most of Trumps corruption is Americas internal thing. He is enriching himself at the expense of his country. That is not something Europeans would watch that closely. But, they watch the world cup.
When did Donald Trump kill people over soccer? What are you talking about?
> Yes Russia run doping program. It is not the only country with regular doping scandals. And yet, they did not had referee change result so that they player can go againts another team.
Yes, the doping scandal is much worse.
> And greenland. Dont forget greenland.
The more people complain about it the more I'm starting to side with the US on this lol.
> And Ukraine, dont forget how USA took Putin side in negotiations.
Yep and don't forget how America is still assisting Ukraine today, we were the ones rushing missiles and supplies to Ukraine and shouting from the rooftops that an invasion was coming while the EU sent helmets, well-wishes cards, and European leaders continued to public state nothing was happening.
> Or tried to blame it for missile shortage after Iran war.
Blame what for missile shortages?
> Which leads to oil prices. And trade war. And insults. And lies of epic proportions.
Ok but none of that has anything to do with FIFA or whatever this nonsense OP is about.
> Most of Trumps corruption is Americas internal thing. He is enriching himself at the expense of his country. That is not something Europeans would watch that closely. But, they watch the world cup.
No, believe me, they watch it very closely. In fact, it's even more important than news in Europe.
> The more people complain about it the more I'm starting to side with the US on this lol.
Like what, people complain about USA trying to invade Greenland and therefore it is OK for US to do so? If people just let it happen, then you would be against it. But since they did not forgot in few months, you are pro-invasion?
Is that what you have in mind?
> we were the ones rushing missiles and supplies to Ukraine
USA is refusing to give missies EU literally paid for. USA stopped military assistance after Trump took power.
> EU sent helmets, well-wishes cards, and European leaders continued to public state nothing was happening.
You are lying. Majority of help is from European countries while USA tries to push Ukraine to unconditionally accept Russian demands.
But somehow this was the fault of the US?
The European football institution is UEFA which has complained about things like this and is also trying to remove Infantino – but the rest of the world has been bribed enough to keep him on.
To not to sway too far away, well technically yes. However all 55 UEFA members threathened to quit FIFA after Infanito’s plan to privatise the World Cup. It was just last month. And we all know who is behind this.
I didn't know registering an entity in another place automatically changed the character of the people that run it. That's magic. Literally mind-control.
But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.
It has "international" right there in the name. The vast majority of its members are not "European" in any sense. Calling it "European" is offensive to those members and to the footballing world as a whole. It reeks of a colonial attitude.
I'll ask you again: what actually affects how an organization runs? The place that it's registered in, or the people in charge?
FIFA has to be registered somewhere for legal reasons. That doesn't make it of that place.
> But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.
If FIFA were registered in the Caymans would you call it a Caymanian organization?
I know that instinctively sounds crazy, but this administration attacked Iran without a plan for their closing the Strait of Hormuz, and tariffed uninhabited islands based on an AI-generated list.
They're rational, but they're aggressive and dumb. Treat them as you would treat a guy who starts bar fights; one strategy is quietly moving to the far side of the bar, which is what this appears to be.
There has to be an adult in the room there to tell them this is a really bad idea. I mean I didn't think Putin would invade Ukraine so my track record is iffy but there's a reason the Belgians refuse to use Russian frozen assets - no one would ever put money there ever again. That'd be the end of their banking sector basically.
All elected and supported, especially AFTER how he and his supports lead the so many extra deaths in covid. I know your media does not bring facts but truth is out there.
(Although US voter suppression weakens this argument)
If you live in a 'safe' state, tacitly agreeing with your state's electors doesn't mean tacitly agreeing with the electoral college result.
In fact, from a moral point of view voting for the lesser evil is highly objectionable because you are voting for someone who you do not even support just so that another person you support even less does not get elected.
Its perfectly fine to say, I don't agree with either and I am going to sit this one out otherwise you end up in weird political dynamics that you can see playing out in real time in France for example.
For the executive branch, the US president is not elected by direct vote, but instead by the electoral college, as enshrined in the US Constitution Article 2. The average voter has essentially zero voting influence to change the Constitution, and the plurality voting created by the electoral college intrinsically promotes a two party political system, and further political polarization. There is also a chance in some cases of “faithless electors”.
For judicial seats, while some states hold elections for state/county seats, all federal judges are appointed by the executive branch, which is therefore (IMO) essentially held hostage by the pluralist electoral college.
And for the legislative branch, candidate selection is heavily influenced by the primary elections of the two dominant political parties, before even reaching national elections. It’s also heavily influenced by campaign funds and lobbyist interests. While states have the authority to adopt alternative systems, the vast majority still use plurality voting, and the currently entrenched two-party system is incentivized to keep it that way.
So I can understand why some voters see not participating as a valid protest against the status quo, even if I don’t agree with that action.
I disagree fundamentally.
Not voting is simply not making a choice. If the choices presented do not align with my preferences then I do not vote. Why would I vote for someone who I don't support? I don't pick the candidates that are offered. Want me to vote? Then get better candidates next time! Until then I will exercise my right to not vote.
Your status quo also assume that either one or both candidates are presenting you with potential change to what has happened in the past whereas most of the time, the choices are simply a continuation of what has been happening aka tinkering on the margins without pissing too many people off.
I'd love to see a ballot with ranked choice voting that includes a none of the above option.
My preferred voting system is the ranked choice one in Australia but Australia also has compulsory voting which I disagree with.
I think in a democracy, it is up to the voter to decide if and how much they want to get involved in the democratic process just like a person has the right to join or not a parti, listen or not to a political debate and so on and so forth.
I wish the blank vote was more represented in the democratic process somehow but I don't really have a solution for this problem.
Compulsory voting just means that there's no space where some of the population can hop on the high horse of saying the political troubles of the country have nothing to do with them as they didn't vote. I used to work around the loop holes and got out of voting until my early mid 20s when I just didn't give that much of a hoot either way for state or federal politics.
The rationalizing, the "corrupt DNC" arguments and everything else is a cop-out.
That is true, I struggle to think of a single time he has taken responsibility for anything. But it works, his supporters actually believe that he is infallible and just can't get competent help. Or it's the deep state. Or something.
Alan Keyes apparently set the floor at 27%, which is not far below 30%
> Obama vs. Alan Keyes. ... Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement.
https://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_Senate_elec...
And lizardman's Constant is 4% https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Lizardman%27s_Constant
- running against a charismatic Obama
- being a last minute insert when Jack Ryan was caught in a sex scandal (who was already fighting an uphill battle with sharing a last name with the corrupt former governor)
- being a carpetbagger (he didn't live in Illinois at any point until running for senate)
- running as a hard-line social conservative in a state where the GOP is torn between appealing to suburban Chicago fiscal conservatives and downstate Illinois social conservatives
And the crazy.
Really?
Because unless the alternative option was a diminutive Austrian with a dodgy 'tache, I find that rather hard to believe.
The reality is America voted for Trump (TWICE!) because they wanted him. The rest of the world knows this, and is now acting accordingly.
EDIT: Downvotes coming from the brainwashed MAGA crowd!
Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option. Don't dismiss it out of hand.
People in the UK voted for Brexit because "well it can't be worse, can it?" They were suckers.
I don't disagree with the "The reality is" line.
But none of them were on the presidential ballot in 2016, 2020, or 2024.*
*Under one of the two parties that has any chance of actually winning.
I don't think that's true it all. They were promised that it would be better and sold pretty obvious lies. Same applies to Trump. Unfortunately the intelligence of the average voter is now at the bottom of the barrel and I wouldn't expect that to improve soon. Just look at the support people like Andrew Tate get among young people.
It's not true of them all, but it definitely is true of at least some of them.
I know this because I heard it said in those words in a vox pops interview shortly before the Brexit vote.
If Trump was an isolated incident, sure, but he is not. In Europe the far-right and far-left parties are rising in many countries and the traditional parties are crumbling.
I think there is a serious lack of trust in the institutions and in the politicians that is spreading around the world at a quick pace and many people are just fed up with the status-quo that has been in place since the fall of the USSR.
People want change, not small marginal tinkering on the edges, they want to see that things move decisively in one way or the other and they are not afraid to flip the table and see what happens.
That much should be self-evident.
Can you give an example of how, in practice, it would work to hold millions of voters accountable for what their elected representative does?
Worth picking not just Trump, but let's say a few other Presidents around the world, including someone you voted for.
Did he say that he'd threaten to annex Canada and Greenland? Not that I recall.
Did he say that he'd start a war with Iran? No, I'm pretty sure he said "No new wars."
Look, he's a loose cannon. Everyone who voted for him should have known that. But no, he's not doing "exactly what he said he would do when he ran". Some of what he's doing is what he said, and some is completely contradictory to what he said.
(Credit where due: I stole the "kangaroo on speed" line from an unpublished short story. Don't remember the author, or I'd give them credit by name.)
In a democracy, it is the elected officials, who are meant to represent the voter, that are held accountable. Not the voter.
> Of course voting is significant and has consequences.
Tautology but also not relevant. How do you propose the voter be held accountable?
Voters are responsible for selecting representatives, but they are not responsible for running things and making the kinds of decisions that elected officials need to and do make.
In a situation like this, I like to do a thought experiment where I replace "Trump" with "Republican voter" in a headline or a story to see whether that idea holds up.
He opened the door, and I find it very, very unlikely that either side will close it after this. Dems and Reps will both use this to take control in ways that would have been unthinkable prior to Trump's first election. The only way to restore any measure of that trust would be to pass laws that prevent this kind of abuse, and there's no way that politicians will give up power they've gained.
Impeachment could be a check on his power, but impeachment is a kangaroo court with a political jury, so he would need to piss off a lot more Republican senators than he has.
A few presidental impeachments over unlawful acts ending in conviction would change future behavior. But it seems unlikely that we'll get there.
On the other hand, a right-wing Supreme Court may try to block any reforms that check the Executive. The Legislature's ultimate oversight power of the Exec is impeachment, and they have decided that no amount of corruption or crime or destruction should be checked as long as it "feels right".
Trump can bomb cities in Europe and we would trade with the US. I doubt we will ever fully separate from the US.
This is the same level of delusion that: And Iran will never dare to close the strait.
Something similar happened in the UK, as the major parties moved towards a consensus as they both went after critical centrist voters (because the left and right voters were not going anywhere else - at the time anyway).
Trump is a cause of destruction. He is literally making those decisions. He is to blame. Trump and project 2025 are what republicans and conservatives were trying to achieve for years and years. Again, it hapened intentionally.
But noooooo, must blame Obama. Anyone except directly responsable organizations and people.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
They are not some kind of insane people outside of politics and government. They are literally the republican party.
"A total of more than 27 tonnes of gold was physically transferred from the locations in North America to DNB Cash Centre in Zeist, Utrecht, between March and August. Another 59 tonnes of gold kept in New York was also sold off during this time, while the equivalent amount of gold was purchased in London."
They do not explain _how_ it was moved, though.
I will not get better until they are removed.
It is not in their interest to save the federal government, US dollar, or the economy.
They are all BRIICS backed and want the dollar and trans atlanticism, backed by the US military, to fail.
I think "save" is not even in the room with us; they seem to be actively harming every industry: farming, food, oil, electronics, manufacturing, healthcare, etc. It's a full on assault.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", but in this case we're dealing with malicious actors and it's apparent these are malicious actions. DOGE was just the first step.
At first I thought they were trying to establish something that looked closer to Russia, where they can make life just hard enough for them to keep accumulating wealth indefinitely. Now I'm worried they're going for something that resembles Africa's poorest nations, where we fight amongst ourselves over resources that are increasingly constrained.
For the context : German airport was officially attacked by Russia . And that’s only one of many incidents. UK is on the radar of official Russian hawks for a very long time
Russia has been weird for a long time, they are doing sub-threshold-of-war attacks for a while now.
But the USA? Outright threatening allies, talking about annexing some of them, making more threats against other allies who make moves to defend those allies? And he's got a known love for gold, started wars without bothering to inform allies he's now trying to punish for failing to provide help that he told them he didn't even want.
This is nothing new for anybody interested in the topic, its all very open and public (which is kind of the point I guess to manipulate public perception too). Every single secret service know this as 101 reality. In same way ie war in Ukraine started in 2014 in all measurable ways, not 2022.
US part... well its painful to watch, especially the incompetence or elephant-in-porcelain-shop part, of a shop that took many decades to build. But its good long term for Europe and rest of west - we became uber weak and over-reliant on US bases, their tech and power projection, and even if its 2026, influence not backed by real power means very little in actual world out there. Be provably strong or vanish seems to be mantra. Its smart to adapt to reality rather than expect the world to rearrange itself to some idealistic wishful thinking, however nice it may feel and however well it may have worked during easy peaceful times.
There's issues with defending the east flank. Namely, without taking full control of the Baltic Sea, Baltic States and Finland will run out of provisions in weeks.
You can buy incendiary armor piercing bullets that could take one down for $5, but strangely they've been utilized for decades.
Finland will run out of provisions in a weeks? How so? Will Russia control their western border?
When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.
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That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories and other things that have been going boom, but it's always going to be done with plausible deniability - sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia, and the like. They're not going to just start bombing planes in airports with drones.
But since I've been brainwashed by propaganda, perhaps you can enlighten me on what benefits you believe Russia would see for themselves in deciding to directly attack a NATO country in a way that would lack any plausible deniability. In particular you need to come up with some sort of argument here for how they might see this as viably resulting in an improved positioning for themselves.
Under different angle they will tell this is Ukraine’s false flag attempt … oh evil ukriane , these bastards who try to survive how dare they are
Anyways still 0 political win , only losses . Current German government can’t defend themself and start talking NATO , that is again very unpopular among maga-Germans , since they hate USA
Several possible benefits. In the last months Russia has tried repeatedly to lure Nato to a response for their constant provocations.
This way they can claim that Russia is being attacked by Nato and 1) have an excuse to start a massive mobilization of their reserve soldiers planned for this fall and 2) activate the mutual defense treatise with China and NK so they force both countries to participate directly in the war.
- Zelensky has claimed literally every single year that Russia is planning a massive general mobilization. This has never happened nor anything at all like it. The latest claim will likely turn out as all others prior.
- Russia does not have a mutual defense pact with China, nor any sort of military alliance at all. In fact China could cripple Ukraine at any moment if they so chose. 'Ukrainian' drones are loaded with components stamped 'Made in China.' China has historically been, and remains, the world's merchant whose primary interest is themselves, as should be the case for all sovereign nations.
- Your scenario relies on Russia believing that they'd have a greater edge in a direct Russia + North Korea vs Ukraine + NATO conflict than in the current status quo of Russia vs Ukraine with North Korea and NATO playing significant but limited auxiliary roles. This seems highly improbably since they already had endless reasonable justifications to create this scenario if they wanted, and have constantly sidestepped it. By contrast this is the exact scenario that Ukraine and warhawks in NATO have been trying to create. But outside some unprecedented escalation from Russia, Western nations will never tolerate coffins being draped in any color except yellow and blue.
Weidel would make a "Notwendige Politikwende" speech and that's it. They'll then cut social services and enact pro-business laws and make some noise about immigration until ordered by the industry to allow it.
Like you alluded to Meloni went from end of the world to business as usual in remarkably short order, and the same could viably if not likely happen with AfD as well, but the bigger change behind the scenes there is that her party went from 2% in 2013, to leading Italy today - and that gain came at the expense of the loss of power by whatever the older establishment was in Italy.
No, it wasn't.
> That said I do expect Russia is likely involved in at least some of the incidents of weapons factories
They're involved in all of them.
> sleeper agents with no direct ties to Russia
This isn't a movie. They pay criminals to do criminal activity. They're not utilizing "sleeper agents" to burn down a building.
>When Russia wants to directly attack NATO they'll likely do exactly what the US/EU is doing and simply arm e.g. Iran/Houthis/etc with weapons/locations, let them push the button, and then go all Slava Allah or whatever while Russia is like 'oh we're not involved in this conflict you have with Iran.' Great precedent that's been set.
What does this even mean? Are you equating Ukraine with Iran and the Houthis?
Comparing that German airport "attack" by Russia to the 9/11 attack by Mr. bin Laden - would you say that all gold reserves should have been moved out of the USA back in 2001?
If a shooting war breaks out beween the US and the Bond Market, the gold isnt safe anywhere.
So high in fact that the operation malfunctioned. Precisely what a false flag would do.
The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.
All that these stupid politics accomplish is that the AfD will have 35% in the next elections so Germany can enjoy Trump-like corruption and the industry can exploit people even more. At this point one wonders if the CDU is in on it and the AfD is secretly already part of the uniparty, public theater of forbidding the AfD notwithstanding.
> The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries.
What "oil rich" Baltic states are you referring to? Is the US going to takeover Norway?
Parts can be obtained from Russia by Russian speaking Ukrainians that are indistinguishable from Russians.
You are making up "oil rich" Baltic states. The comment said "various oil rich states", i.e. Iran and Venzuela.
I assume you volunteer for the front?
I'm not sure what the point of that is? I can order Russian parts online. Too many people watch movies and think all this subterfuge is needed.
> You are making up "oil rich" Baltic states. The comment said "various oil rich states", i.e. Iran and Venzuela.
I made up this quote up?
> The US indeed would like to expand the Ukrainian proxy war to the Baltics so it can carry out its own plans of getting various oil rich countries
What, exactly, are you referring to here? The US is going to expand the war in the Baltics to get the oil in Venezuela? How does that make any sense at all?
> No damage because they need the Antonovs.
Ok? Then blow up something next to it then, or some ground support people. Really make an impact and sell it!
> I assume you volunteer for the front?
Such an old argument that's never made any sense. I think there should be teachers, firefighters, police, doctors, etc. I do not need to become one of them because I think they should exist. I have, however, donated $XXk to Ukraine for their efforts, make donations to various groups on a monthly basis, and will donate another $5-10k from my Donor Advised fund this winter - all of which they need far more than some middle aged American dude showing.
I get that you are having problems dealing with your country's leadership making such horrible decisions, but pretending like it's all a big conspiracy is just detaching you from reality and will make the fall even harder for you.